Curse

Thanas · Aug 11, 2005, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Im not disagreeing with that. However this approach can be rather clumsy really. Cause after all you are guessing. My main problem is that some characters are very energy orientated and in order to play effectively they have to be very lucky since probability plays a very large part in guesses, even if they are educated ones. Obviously this puts a player of this variety at a disadvantage.

Valheru · Aug 11, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

heh, how about you totally remove health bars from the enemy, and let only, say, warriors/rangers/necros see them, while letting mesmers/monks/eles see a energy bar. then when you are attacking a particular enemy, you 'light' up that foe's energy/health bar to the rest of your party.

idea is that w/r/n classes can tell when an enemy's going all soft and vulnerable, and a me/mo/e is much more attuned to the ether flows around that foe.

probably a bad idea, lol.

SauceD · Aug 11, 2005, 04:16 PM // 16:16

I think JoDiamonds really tore Thanos a new one. So you know which side of the argument I am taking. But, he did this for good reason, not to be cruel but to enlighten. I appreciate the dissecting of the entire argument all while keeping a civil tone. But onto my two cents.

The implementation of this idea would certainly lead to changes in the game play but I think they would be for the worse. The introduction of enemy energy bars would remove one of the last bastions of skill in the game. Keeping track of all those numbers is what separates the good players from the bad. I don't know about you but I want some way to separate myself from the guy who picked the game up yesterday other then the fact I have unlocked more skills, have more gold, or better items. All those things come with time, they will catch up eventually so what would you have over them then? This game would be forgettable if you could pick it up and master it in less then a week.

This does not mean that I am against the team energy bars. I couldn't see this as having a huge effect on any of the team dynamics. You can tell your team how much health and energy you have by ctrl clicking and there is a bar to reflect the health but not for energy why? The chat channel becomes very crowded with people spamming their energy and screaming on Vent or TS how they need energy. This would fix all those problems because it would be clear to see. Other then cleaning up one of the channels of communication nothing too terrible could happen seeing as it would only affect a few energy regain skills, BiP mostly. This implementation is not crucial though Anet has other things to worry about with their expansion coming out, skill balancing, and server problems.

Thanas · Aug 11, 2005, 04:32 PM // 16:32

He didnt tear me a new one at all. I still have no idea where he's coming from. But he didn't bother to carry on the discussion, so we could try and understand one another. I really don't understand all these references to skill. How is guessing what your enemies energy is skillful. You can pretend it is, but in all fairness you have no real idea what the enemies energy status is when fighting and therefore you never no whether you're skills are of any use or not. You just have to assume they are.

JoDiamonds · Aug 11, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

My intent was certainly not to actually upset anyone. I hadn't commented more because I felt I had said a great deal to explain my views. If someone still didn't understand, I don't feel there's much more I can say. Thanas did not (nor did anyone else) respond to any particular points saying it made sense or not; I can't reasonably respond after I make an exceptionally long post stating my views and someone says, "I don't understand. Could you clarify?" What am I supposed to do? Repeat everything? I have no idea where the confusion is, and it almost sounds like someone is trying to bait me.

I feel I understand Thanas' position and viewpoint just fine, and completely disagree with pretty much everything. I can't imagine it's useful for me to repeatedly say I disagree. It just turns into a flame war at that point.

I think the original post and topic was fine, and people saying they agree or disagree with things in general is good for others to see where people stand. I really don't have more to say on this subject. It's just not so important to me, and I've really had my say at this point. I happiest to simply bow out of this discussion now.

Sereng Amaranth · Aug 11, 2005, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Raven

...I usually Ctrl-Click on my energy bar to inform everyone about the status of my Energy reserves...

That usually leads into everyone clicking their bars. Nothing like flexing peanuts.

johnnylange · Aug 11, 2005, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Raven

That's the downside of being an elementalist (or other heavy energy using class) in a group.

All the big, buff warriors running around and aggroing everything in sight and not waiting for your energy to recharge before attacking another group.

Example:

Me : "Please wait a sec. I need some time to recharge my Energy!"
Warrior: "Elem are such dead weight. Why don't you just GTFO!"

Unfortunately, this happens most of the time.

I usually Ctrl-Click on my energy bar to inform everyone about the status of my Energy reserves.

But i agree with you completely.

When playing as monk, I ctrl-click serveral times and I still can't get people to stop.

I just tell them something like "Oops, your dead...shouldn't of ran ahead while I was low on energy."

Iceciro · Aug 12, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

As a player of many caster classes, with a drainmes and a Mo/n, I want this suggestion so bad...

Both for allies and for enemies. I like the enemies energy bar because it adds a new level of strength and deception, more strategies.

Thanas · Aug 12, 2005, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceciro

As a player of many caster classes, with a drainmes and a Mo/n, I want this suggestion so bad...

Both for allies and for enemies. I like the enemies energy bar because it adds a new level of strength and deception, more strategies.

I feel it adds more strategies too. I feel the other approach as to guessing an enemies energy is clumsy. I mean we have info on the condition of an enemy, whether they are hexed, poisoned etc. When energy plays such an integral part to the game why are there no indicators for it?

Rhunex · Aug 12, 2005, 11:25 AM // 11:25

I disagree with this idea. It's a good one, no doubt. But I think in the more tense situations of the game, you're going to have a good group that's not going to pull that kind of stuff(such as relying on guildmates, or getting a random group together on vent/ts/etc). I just mainly disagree because I think it's another thing people don't need to worry about. I think it should be the caster's job to make sure they're full on energy before attacking(coming from a person who's main characters are monk, elementalist, and mesmer). If some dumb warrior is going to aggro a group without knowing your energy level, he's going to do it when he knows your energy level too. That, or he won't even look at it(because the part window is optional outside of towns, which is where I assume such information would be put), and he'll just go on with his normal business of being stupid.

Esprit · Aug 12, 2005, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

I disagree with this idea. It's a good one, no doubt. But I think in the more tense situations of the game, you're going to have a good group that's not going to pull that kind of stuff(such as relying on guildmates, or getting a random group together on vent/ts/etc). I just mainly disagree because I think it's another thing people don't need to worry about. I think it should be the caster's job to make sure they're full on energy before attacking(coming from a person who's main characters are monk, elementalist, and mesmer). If some dumb warrior is going to aggro a group without knowing your energy level, he's going to do it when he knows your energy level too. That, or he won't even look at it(because the part window is optional outside of towns, which is where I assume such information would be put), and he'll just go on with his normal business of being stupid.

I'm not in a guild, nor do I have TS or Vent, and I don't plan on doing either of them any time soon. And for the 85% of the time that you don't have tense situations, then an energy bar would be most beneficial. The point of an energy bar is for players who do not understand that when you ctrl+click your energy bar, you aren't showing off, but trying to indicate your energy status. People will pay attention to a little blue bar on their party screen more than someone ctrl+clicking. Also for those necros who do energy maintenance, then a bar would be most beneficial. Or if you are in a party with a monk and you notice that their energy bar is getting very low, you may need to do some of your own healing, and saving energy for healing spring, or healing breeze (W/Mo) rather than using a skill. The last bit, would be very helpful, because in the middle of a battle, you may not notice that your monk is low on energy, but a quick glance at the party bar would tell you everything you need to know, in a half second.

Thanas · Aug 12, 2005, 01:57 PM // 13:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhunex

I disagree with this idea. It's a good one, no doubt. But I think in the more tense situations of the game, you're going to have a good group that's not going to pull that kind of stuff(such as relying on guildmates, or getting a random group together on vent/ts/etc). I just mainly disagree because I think it's another thing people don't need to worry about. I think it should be the caster's job to make sure they're full on energy before attacking(coming from a person who's main characters are monk, elementalist, and mesmer). If some dumb warrior is going to aggro a group without knowing your energy level, he's going to do it when he knows your energy level too. That, or he won't even look at it(because the part window is optional outside of towns, which is where I assume such information would be put), and he'll just go on with his normal business of being stupid.

I am asking for this to be implemented to aid those classes that attack energy as well as to benefit allies. As I said before we have information on hexes, conditions etc. If a foe is hexed or has a condition we can see this and thus take advantage of the situation. Strategy should be dynamic not static. What makes a good tactician and a skilled player is the ability to adapt to a situation. Giving people infomation on hexes/conditions helps promote this dynamic form of play as well as teamplay, since they are able to react to the actions of their team mates through this simple visual aid. This visual aid does not hinder the team. Were it to be removed, under the logic of others, you should guess that a certain player has a hex/condition on them. After you guess you cast a spell which utilises the hex/condition status of your foe and if the spell that you cast that attacks hexes/conditions doesn't work then that player has no hex/condition. Surely you can see that this is ridiculously logwinded and very labourious, so much so that it would slow down gameplay. So why can you not extend this logic to the energy bar situation.

I would also like to note that I did suggest that you should be able to toggle energy bars.

Thanas · Aug 12, 2005, 02:44 PM // 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

My intent was certainly not to actually upset anyone. I hadn't commented more because I felt I had said a great deal to explain my views. If someone still didn't understand, I don't feel there's much more I can say. Thanas did not (nor did anyone else) respond to any particular points saying it made sense or not; I can't reasonably respond after I make an exceptionally long post stating my views and someone says, "I don't understand. Could you clarify?" What am I supposed to do? Repeat everything? I have no idea where the confusion is, and it almost sounds like someone is trying to bait me.

I feel I understand Thanas' position and viewpoint just fine, and completely disagree with pretty much everything. I can't imagine it's useful for me to repeatedly say I disagree. It just turns into a flame war at that point.

I think the original post and topic was fine, and people saying they agree or disagree with things in general is good for others to see where people stand. I really don't have more to say on this subject. It's just not so important to me, and I've really had my say at this point. I happiest to simply bow out of this discussion now.

Its sometimes a good idea to understand another persons argument and why they have come to the conclusions they have. You still don't neccesarily have to agree with them. Knowledge is better than ignorance.

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 01:54 AM // 01:54

*bump*

Audhumla · Aug 13, 2005, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I am also against the idea of showing the energy levels for enemy monsters, and especially in PvP. Reason: it makes the game easier, and frankly, PvE isn't hard enough. I'm not asking for a total super-mega-challenge gauntlet, but I feel that seeing the enemy energy level would overpower energy denial, especially in PvP. Oooh, I just had 10 energy sapped from me, good thing I was only at 1 to begin with. I think an implementation like this into PvP would lead to unbalance and little energy across casters. Putting it into PvE would make things too easy; energy denial is a delicate art, and making it too easy just seems cheap.

As for teammates energy levels, I would be fine with that showing up, as I cannot generally trust PUG teammates to announce their energy levels before they get to 0, and 3 energy regen wont be that helpful.

Kai Nui · Aug 13, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Yeah, being a mesmer and fighting people OR NPCs gives you NO SATISFACTION! duh duh duh! no no no! yeah!

and I'd really like to see how much energy my opponents have. Is my Energy Burn spell actually making a dent in that dolyak's energy, or is he like an everlasting gob stopper of energy? I'd also like it if I could SEE how long until the spell is over. Counting a few seconds without a clock is annoying, especially when there is one and it's at the top of the freakin screen.

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Audhumla

Oooh, I just had 10 energy sapped from me, good thing I was only at 1 to begin with. I think an implementation like this into PvP would lead to unbalance and little energy across casters. Putting it into PvE would make things too easy

What does this mean?

Karls Bronson · Aug 13, 2005, 01:02 PM // 13:02

I'm completely for this, given 50% of my necromancer's function is supplying energy to partied monks.

Thanas · Aug 13, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karls Bronson

I'm completely for this, given 50% of my necromancer's function is supplying energy to partied monks.

I have a feeling that most of those players who disagree with this idea are not of a class where energy manipulation is important.

Sturmkoenig · Aug 13, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

for friends: yes that would be nice and a good enhancement.

for foes: never!
i'm playing my domination mesmer a lot especially in the tombs and showing an enemy energy bar would just make it LOADS to EASY!
the point for a energy drainer is, that he must calculate how much the enemy can have left, if he is shown that by the game it would become imbalanced.